Three decades in the music business have taught former Black Crowes Drummer Steve Gorman a lot about unhealthy environments. In his new book, Hard to Handle: The Life and Death of the Black Crowes, the former Western Kentucky University student details the group’s meteoric rise and crushing downfall.
Ahead of this weekend’s show at the Southern Kentucky Performing Arts Center, Gorman joined us to discuss his new band, Trigger Hippy, and it’s sophomore album, Full Circle and Then Some.
Transcription (Editor's Note: Some questions and responses have been condensed for the purpose of transcription)
Gorman, on creating a new album with a new band:
It was a blast to make...it's our album, we made it according to our own schedule. And when we felt we had a song that was worth recording, we would all get together and go knock it out. You know it's a very stress-free process.
Why he thinks his previous band, The Black Crowes, never had a solid foundation:
We were all kids when we started that band, and with literally next to zero life experience and certainly no experience about being a musician and a working environment. We were kids with a dream. And that's a great way to start a band. It's not a great way to maintain a band and a lot of the Black Crowes difficulties and dysfunction stemmed from us never really maturing and evolving and being able to communicate the fact that we saw things differently as we aged.
We tried to maintain, it's like, we wanted to keep this genie in the bottle to everyone's great detriment. Trigger Hippy started, with everybody that's in Trigger Hippy, and for Nick Govrik and I, who've really started the band, and were the ones that started making phone calls to get people to jam with us. You know, we met when we were in our 40s. And we'd already had a lot of experiences, both of us, and there's just so many things you do as a younger musician that you accept and say, "Well, this is no big deal. It's okay in the grand scheme of things," that as an older, more seasoned veteran, if you will, you can see red flags and you just steer away from them.
All of which to say Trigger Hippy is basically built on a foundation of respect. And the Black Crowes, you know, only because we were too young and didn't know better, that was hardly something we considered. We just wanted something, and we were willing to do anything it took to get there. That's not how Trigger Hippy is built or based or operates on any level.
On how being in a respectful environment impacted the creative process for Trigger Hippy:
Well, everybody feels comfortable bringing forth any idea. You know, no one questions their own instinct. I mean, in a band, like The Black Crowes there were, and this is true of a lot of rock bands. And specifically, like I said, a lot of rock bands that start when everybody's really young. You establish a culture early on and it's next to impossible to change it and to allow the individual members inside that bubble to grow and evolve and be comfortable doing that.
You know, one of the big things in the book I wrote about the band, it's pretty clear to me anyway, the Black Crowes never exploded. It eroded, you know, the band slowly tore itself apart over the years. And it's, and it's a question on a daily basis, everybody having a little bit less confidence, in their opinion, a little bit less respect for each other...a little less joy and appreciation for how good we had it being a successful band.
It's really difficult to keep a band together even when everybody's on the same page. It's very difficult. The Black Crowes never knew how hard that was because we were so rarely on the same page. We were all focused on trying to accomplish things, but we all had very different goals and very different motivations.
And really, it's funny again, going back to the whole starting a band when you're young versus old. There's a set of values that everybody needs to share: Very deep down, what is it you're actually hoping to accomplish? What do you want to do? And how do you go about it? And what are your true values? That's not the kind of thing a bunch of kids in their teens and early 20s sit around and talk about. It's a very common conversation and a healthy conversation for people in their 40s to discuss.
On how he knew he was officially done with The Black Crowes after he says front man, Chris Robinson, tried to renegotiate his share of the pay ahead of a 2015 reunion tour.
We were the three founding members and he decided after 27 years to change the way the money flowed. And it was just a bizarre, absurd list of demands that were non-negotiable. So I mean, as far as my involvement with the Black Crowes, I knew the day I got that email that I was done that I would never willingly be in a room with him again, it's real simple.
But the band at its greatest...there was a band in the 90s called the Black Crowes that was a true band that did have an incredible essence, and was a top-shelf band and all-time great rock and roll band, and that band went away in the summer of '97 and never really found itself again. But, that said, we didn't stop trying for a long time. But there was sort of the death of the band at its greatest. And then there was just the band that continued trying to find its way again for a long time.
On whether there was a specific low point when Gorman realized it couldn't continue.
Well, I knew that I knew it couldn't continue.... I definitely knew in the summer of '97, we had two members leave the band and within a space of a week, and I knew it was over and I wanted to leave. I felt 100% like it's time to go. But I wasn't in a place to do that. I didn't have a plan. I didn't have a backup plan. I couldn't even imagine what I would do. And thankfully, I did realize that and I did admit to myself, well, that just says I've been wasting my time. Like I've put way too much of myself into this without taking care of myself.
And so I knew I needed to...I knew I needed to stay until I was on more solid ground. And until I had a little bit of a clear view of things. And then two years later, I was ready to go. And in fact, I did call our manager to quit the band in the summer of '99. And he responded with "I just hung up with Jimmy Page's manager, and he wants to go on tour with us." And so I was like, "Well, maybe I'll wait a little bit." And there were there countless examples of that, where you feel like it's time to change course and something, there's always a carrot across the room, that's just too good to turn down.
And then ultimately, you know, two years after that phone call at the end of 2001, I did leave the band. And I did think that would be permanent, you know, the band was going away. And I said, "Well, I'm not coming back, I'm done." And then as things go, you know, everybody grows up and gets away from each other for a few years and at least gives lip service to having learned and grown up and then we started the band up again and within a few years, it was pretty obvious it was the same old story.
And then my new goal...shifted to just be getting out in a good place and sort of preserving the legacy. And finishing on a high note, I wanted the band to go away. And we had a tour plan for 2015 that was going to be the farewell tour. And I was very excited about that because I thought we could finally do something right. And we could walk out with our heads held high and shake hands and then that became impossible to do, and so then that's when...as I said, when Chris demanded a new business setup, that's when I was like, "Okay, this is done." It was already done. It just happened a year before I wish it had but time to move on.
How he's hosting a syndicated radio show out of Nashville, an hour south of where he went to school at WKU.
You know, the first time I ever played a drum kit, like to learn songs with other guys playing instruments was in Bowling Green. It was at a house just off campus in the fall of '83. I borrowed a drum kit from a friend and me and a bass player guitar player just started making noise. And I didn't know what I was doing. Thankfully, I was with guys who did and I could fake , I faked it really well, like I knew what I was doing. And then, you know, that happened for a few years in Bowling Green, I would just, you know, sit around with friends.
And every time I played a drum kit, it can be for an hour or 10 minutes. And I would always finish and think, man, this is what I want to do. I had a very, very burning desire, I could never turn it off. And so, you know, I was a broadcasting major, and I got through three years of school and the whole time it was like, I was wearing this mask of a college student because all I wanted to do is actually buy a drum kit and make a commitment to play in a band with some friends. And when I finally got that opportunity, it turned out it was in Atlanta, but I didn't hesitate. I just said, "Let's do this. Let's give it a shot." So...to say that Bowling Green factors into my musical development is an understatement. I mean, because that's literally where I started playing drums.
On what it means to come back to town and play at the SKyPac:
Oh, it's fantastic. I mean, I'm thrilled that we're up there playing in Bowling Green, you know, I'm in Bowling Green several times a year as it is. I go up just to see family or go to a Western game or whatever, whatever the reason may be. But to bring my band up there, you know, the Black Crowes never played in Bowling Green.
Trigger Hippy played there in 2015 one time before, but I'm very excited about this show because I you know, this is the band that Trigger Hippy's been trying to be.
