SACHA PFEIFFER, HOST:
Protecting America's secrets is a big job. It's also a really difficult job, and for the most part, that responsibility falls to the FBI. NPR's Ryan Lucas has exclusive new reporting that shows under the Trump administration, the FBI teams that hunt foreign spies are severely understaffed. In some places, they're down as much as 50%. Ryan Lucas joins us now. Hi, Ryan.
RYAN LUCAS, BYLINE: Hi there.
PFEIFFER: OK, so what exactly did you uncover in your reporting?
LUCAS: So what we're talking about here are FBI counterintelligence squads. And it's their job to track and ferret out foreign spies trying to steal U.S. secrets. That includes both government secrets as well as economic or trade secrets, so things like cutting-edge technology, cutting-edge research or technology. And what I found in my reporting is that those FBI counterintelligence squads have been hit by steep cuts across the country. That's according to five people familiar with the matter who spoke to me on condition of anonymity out of fear of retribution. Now, these manpower shortages are so significant that in some of the FBI's field offices, counterintelligence squads only have 50% to 60% of positions filled. So these are really significant manpower shortages.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. And, I mean, I guess there's probably no such thing as a good time for any of this to be happening ever. But it would seem like now is an especially dangerous time for this kind of shortage, right?
LUCAS: That's right. Yeah. As one source told me, this is terrifying because the threats are growing and the FBI is facing them with less and less. There's, of course, the U.S. war with Iran. There's China, a geopolitical strategic rival that U.S. officials say is waging a relentless campaign for years now to steal U.S. government secrets and technology. There's also, of course, Russia, which is still a formidable foe. It has very capable intelligence services. And of course, it also has a bone to pick with the U.S. over the war in Ukraine. Now, I did contact the FBI for this story. A spokesperson said the bureau has robust counterintelligence operation and also said anonymous critics are, quote, disconnected from reality.
PFEIFFER: Well, given the range of threats that you're reminding us about right now, why has the FBI cut back on counterintelligence?
LUCAS: Well, it's really interesting. Sources told me this isn't the result of a specific directive from FBI Director Kash Patel to cut back on counterintelligence work. Instead, this is a consequence, a ripple effect of Patel's focus on violent crime and immigration enforcement, which, of course, are two top issues for the White House. Patel has made clear that those are the priorities for the FBI. And so FBI field offices across the country, leaders in those field offices are throwing resources at those problems. That has meant pulling agents and analysts from counterintelligence and putting them instead on violent crime and immigration.
PFEIFFER: Interesting. Well, what about the firing of, like, veteran FBI agents under the Trump administration? Are any of the shortages connected to that?
LUCAS: They'll certainly play a role here. Yes. A prime example is back in February, five special agents and a supervisor, all of whom worked Iranian counterintelligence threats, were fired by the FBI days before the Trump administration launched its war on Iran. So that's expertise that's lost right when it is most arguably needed.
PFEIFFER: Yeah.
LUCAS: But look, there is a broader brain drain at the FBI right now because of the turmoil that we've seen under Patel's leadership. Sources tell me that the FBI lost more than 1,500 veteran agents since Trump returned to office. It has 650 fewer agents overall than in January 2025. Those agents who have left have, of course, taken their experience, their institutional knowledge with them. And that's particularly problematic in counterintelligence work because this is very complex, very difficult work. Building sources and cases can take years. As one source says, there's a huge learning curve in this sort of work.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. Well, how do we know if the U.S. is actually being hurt by these changes you're talking about?
LUCAS: Well, first off, it's important to say that the FBI is still doing counterintelligence work. They haven't stopped doing it. They're still bringing cases. But as one former official put it, counterintelligence threats are silent by nature. That means it's very hard to know when one is going undetected.
PFEIFFER: Yeah.
LUCAS: In counterterrorism, if the FBI misses a plot, then something explodes and we all know about it. In counterintelligence, though, if the FBI misses something, then foreign spies just keep on stealing. Nobody knows about it. Nobody is any wiser.
PFEIFFER: Totally quiet. That is NPR's Ryan Lucas. Thank you so much, Ryan.
LUCAS: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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